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Thread: Subjob Discussion

  1. #1

    Subjob Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Teorem
    Original Announcement

    Nonstandard Subjobs

    To be honest, I don't think I or any other leader should really have to patrol people's subjob choices, because there is the expectation that you are going to use some common sense and pick the right one for how we run Dynamis. However, lately, there have been some creative choices which, in my opinion, are neither necessary nor beneficial to the run as a whole.

    So to eliminate any possible confusion, I have taken the liberty to list the following job/subjob combinations that are acceptable in Dynamis (while reserving the right to make any corrections as necessary):

    Melee
    WAR: /MNK, /THF, /SAM, /NIN, /DRG
    MNK: /WAR, /THF, /SAM, /NIN
    THF: /WAR, /NIN
    DRK: /WAR, /THF, /SAM, /NIN
    BST: /WAR, /THF, /NIN, /WHM (only if no appropriate melee subjob available)
    RNG: /WAR, /NIN, /SAM
    SAM: /WAR, /THF, /RNG, /NIN
    DRG: /WAR, /THF, /SAM, /NIN, /mage (only if necessary for alliances)
    BLU: /WAR, /THF, /SAM, /NIN, /mage (only if necessary for alliances OR justifiable exception)
    PUP: /WAR, /THF, /SAM, /NIN, /WHM (only if necessary for alliances)

    Mage/Support
    WHM: /BLM, /RDM, /SMN, /NIN (Dynamis Lord ONLY)
    BLM: /WHM, /RDM
    RDM: /WHM, /BLM, /DRK (when needed)
    BRD: /WHM
    SMN: /WHM
    COR: /RNG, /NIN, /WHM (only if necessary for alliances)

    Tank
    PLD: /WAR
    NIN: /WAR

    This is Dynamis, not HNMs. Everything with the exception of bosses, large statues, Demon NMs, and the Dynamis Lord die within a minute. PLD/mage, PLD/NIN, NIN/mage, and NIN/DRK are not useful here and are not needed.

    Anything not listed above will have to be cleared by me (not any other leader) in advance and on a case-by-case basis, or else you will be asked to change jobs before you enter Dynamis. Be prepared to justify why you think the nonstandard job combination you showed up as is going to be of any real benefit to us if you expect me to allow it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zumi View Post
    Its not like we really have many of this job but shouldn't blue mage like always sub whm to heal other people and for extra mp, why would a mage job sub a meele SJ?
    I put BLU into the melee class because although the job is flexible, it's stronger as a damage dealer (along with their appropriate subs) than as a support class. That is not to say that it can't fit that role if we were so desperate as to need it, which is the "justifable exception" part (and we would have to be REALLY desperate it for it considering how many WHM/RDM we already have).

    In general, I would expect anyone showing up as BLU to Dynamis to be using either physical blue magic or have a specific setup tailored to the use of certain magic spells which might require a different subjob altogether, which should be cleared first.
    Last edited by Teorem; 08-11-2007 at 08:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    3,462
    Mage/Support
    WHM: /BLM, /RDM, /SMN, /NIN (Dynamis Lord ONLY)
    Except Izzy!!!!!!!!!!

    clubclubclubclubclub

    Izzy - FFXI - Phoenix
    WHM/BLM/SMN/NIN/PLD

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Stroudsburg, PA
    Posts
    422
    The whole sub job thing should just be common sense but come on.... Q_Q

    What's next, telling us what gear we should/shouldn't be wearing?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    3,462
    Quote Originally Posted by Tickles View Post
    The whole sub job thing should just be common sense but come on.... Q_Q

    What's next, telling us what gear we should/shouldn't be wearing?
    Kinda agree here. If the subjob can be explained and proven to be useful, why not let them use it? If we're going to start regulating what people can be, then i'm going to start regulating gear as well.

    Izzy - FFXI - Phoenix
    WHM/BLM/SMN/NIN/PLD

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Izzy View Post
    Kinda agree here. If the subjob can be explained and proven to be useful, why not let them use it? If we're going to start regulating what people can be, then i'm going to start regulating gear as well.
    It's a slippery slope! But in all seriousness, I can't help but feel that this public statement is something that was directed towards me. A personal qualm with my choice of sub-job should have been directed to me and not a public accusation of my creative impulses overwhelming my strive to be as effective as possible. It's too bad from a now, main job Paladin, who wants to pigeon hole Paladin into a Flash and provoke machine especially since you especially Teorem have utilized my "creative" tanking ideas in the past. ::cough:: WHM/war ::cough::

    PLD/RDM is very effective depending on the player... I am sorry to hear that you want to lump all people into molds that suit your fancy. If you doubt my effectiveness, which I doubt you do, since we were the same HNMLS for a year, please ask any of the people in my party how many mobs were whacking away at me during large pulls considering, I am able to dispel/bind/flash and basically get on the hate list of every mob within 30 seconds and cement it with a Cure 4.

    So if this is the path DB is taking, I want to be on the gear selection committee because I have a lot of issues with "creative" gear choices used by some of our members. Please keep me updated.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tickles
    The whole sub job thing should just be common sense but come on.... Q_Q

    What's next, telling us what gear we should/shouldn't be wearing?
    I am making the note because lately it hasn't been common sense, and it hasn't been just one person so far.

    I have no intention, other than what we already say is not acceptable, to exhaustively declare what equipment is and isn't allowed in Dynamis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy
    If the subjob can be explained and proven to be useful, why not let them use it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teorem
    Anything not listed above will have to be cleared by me (not any other leader) in advance and on a case-by-case basis, or else you will be asked to change jobs before you enter Dynamis. Be prepared to justify why you think the nonstandard job combination you showed up as is going to be of any real benefit to us if you expect me to allow it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspiringfinch
    A personal qualm with my choice of sub-job should have been directed to me and not a public accusation of my creative impulses overwhelming my strive to be as effective as possible.
    It's not. If it was an issue specifically with you, I would have spoken specifically with you when it was brought to my attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspiringfinch
    It's too bad from a now, main job Paladin, who wants to pigeon hole Paladin into a Flash and provoke machine especially since you especially Teorem have utilized my "creative" tanking ideas in the past. ::cough:: WHM/war ::cough::
    Dynamis is not the Jailer of Love, and I have no plans to ever bring WHM/WAR into Dynamis because there is no purpose and no equivalent situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspiringfinch
    If you doubt my effectiveness, which I doubt you do, since we were the same HNMLS for a year, please ask any of the people in my party how many mobs were whacking away at me during large pulls considering, I am able to dispel/bind/flash and basically get on the hate list of every mob within 30 seconds and cement it with a Cure 4.
    The members of your alliance and/or those specifically looking at your performance on Wednesday are welcome to provide me with feedback on the effectiveness of your PLD/RDM compared to a typical PLD/WAR in Dynamis. I do not necessarily see the need to have hate on everything in range when there are multiple tanks that, when doing their jobs, are supposed to have a great deal of hate on things around as well.
    Last edited by Teorem; 08-11-2007 at 05:52 PM.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Teorem View Post
    Dynamis is not the Jailer of Love, and I have no plans to ever bring WHM/WAR into Dynamis because there is no purpose and no equivalent situation.
    No It sure isn't JoL. But it also means that alternatives can be quite potent in varying situations and you should know better than to ban alternatives without an understanding.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Teorem View Post

    The members of your alliance and/or those specifically looking at your performance on Wednesday are welcome to provide me with feedback on the effectiveness of your PLD/RDM compared to a typical PLD/WAR in Dynamis. I do not necessarily see the need to have hate on everything in range when there are multiple tanks that, when doing their jobs, are supposed to have a great deal of hate on things around as well.
    Some people work harder than others... You should also know that feeling as well.

  9. #9
    Can be, but may not be.

    Are you guys reading at all? It's like you stopped as soon as I said "don't do this."

    Quote Originally Posted by Teorem
    Anything not listed above will have to be cleared by me (not any other leader) in advance and on a case-by-case basis, or else you will be asked to change jobs before you enter Dynamis. Be prepared to justify why you think the nonstandard job combination you showed up as is going to be of any real benefit to us if you expect me to allow it.
    Cities, due to their relative ease, are going to be the general area where someone is going to be allowed to "test" a new method of keeping hate, dealing damage, whatever. If it proves (over multiple runs, and the effect is noticeable to multiple people) to be more effective than a standard job combination, then great, I am not opposed to allowing something that makes us more efficient.

    Non-standard job choices are going to have to be brought to my attention FIRST. Do not show up out of the blue as some weird job combination without being able to explain to me, rationally, what you're trying to accomplish and just how you're going to do it AHEAD OF TIME.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Cleveland area, Ohio
    Posts
    673
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspiringfinch View Post
    Some people work harder than others... You should also know that feeling as well.
    Doesn't mean it's the best choice. My boss at work does the same thing. At one point, he was working an excess of 70 hours a week. It's a short term solution for a long term problem. Eventually all that work he was putting into the job caused him to crash. Mentally/physically/ect. I've actually brought up to him what Teorem does in dynamis. Almost every day people are learning new things. If you rely on 1 person to do all the work, you are screwed when they arn't around. Everyone else begins to slack even more because they can get away with it. If you don't fix the problem at the source, nothing is going to change. Eventually the people who put in all the extra effort won't be able to keep it up and you are just going to have to face the root of the problem anyways. What he's doing right now is to try and fix them before it gets too out of hand.
    Kainhighwind: 75 DRG, PLD & WAR

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