Jayiiq
06-10-2005, 02:26 PM
There are many times in Dynamis when I feel we can handle situations much better than we currently do. In particular, I'm referring to sleeping and silencing mobs, which is something that RDM, BLM, WHM all seem to do, even if not all the time.
Sleep:
For anyone that's sleeping, keep in mind that the duration that a mob is slept is fixed if unresisted. Sleep II will last 35 in game minutes. (1.5 minutes) There have been a couple times I've noticed it only lasted about 17 minutes, which i assume is a half resist, but it might just have been someone else waking the mob at that time.
I plan to do some testing outside Dynamis against without all my enfeebling gear to try to test resisted sleeps, but I do know that if unresisted, Sleep II will always last 1.5 minutes and Sleep will always last 1 minute. This can be very helpful if you're paying attention to everything that you're sleeping. You know when the first mob you slept will wake so you don't find yourself unable to resleep it because of recast timers.
Silence:
There are some mobs that can make things very annoying for us if they're able to cast. Pets and BLM mobs are the biggest concerns. Silencega, Paralyga, Breakga, Dispelga are things we just don't want those pets to cast. And BLM mobs have no qualms against casting some high level -ga spells.
The biggest problem I have with keeping mobs silenced is silencing multiple mobs of the same type. I could keep multiple birds silenced if I knew which mob the game refers to when it says "The Vanguard Crow is no longer silenced." Since I can't, I usually try to just silence one, and make sure to recast when it wears.
In the case of these pets, I'll usually just keep that pet targeted while using <stnpc> and <stpc> macros to do other things. When I see that the mob is no longer silenced, I'll immediately recast.
The problem I've noticed is that while people seem to do a good job of silencing these mobs at the start, recasting silence seems to not happen very often.
One suggestion I have is to basically claim a mob to keep silenced, and then keep that one as your target until it's finally killed. (This is mainy for RDMs, but WHMs help silence too) We always have enough people to do this. If you see some pets coming, try to silence one, if it has no effect, pick another and try to silence it. Do this until it lands. When it does land, keep an eye out for the message saying it's no longer silenced, and resilence it. I think this would greatly reduce the number of times these mobs cast.
Jayiiq
06-10-2005, 07:32 PM
Vanguard Hecteyes is very resistant to sleep, but not lullaby. You might want to eleseal it
Hecteyes resist sleep even with elemental seal. Bards need to be aware that they're the only ones that can sleep these.
btw how does sleep on demons work? ive noticed they resist a lot or something
They don't resist very much at all, except for the WHM and PLD demons. We really need to prioritize killing the PLD demons before things like DRK or DRG, which rarely ever resist sleep. I understand that we want to save the WHMs for last since they'll wake everything up with benediction.
Zymurgy
06-10-2005, 07:56 PM
I don't remember having much problem sleeping hecteyes. I mean, yeah they resist, but they aren't impossible to sleep. Demons aren't as hard to sleep as everyone made it out to be before we got to Xarc.
Since sleep is dark element has anyone tryed useing a Anrin obi to see if it helps any? Maybe extends sleep time or helps it land on hect.
it wont increase duration, it will increace accuracy.
Geminorum
05-20-2007, 07:43 PM
Thanks for bumping this thread, especially for the relatively new people to this shell. I rarely say anything, but this I just had to give my 2 cents.
I'm gonna show 2 sides of this.
When I joined this LS a couple years ago, I was RDM and always came as RDM until I had other job choices to come as, particularly BRD and RNG. I was told, when I went on my first run ever in Jeuno, what I was suppose to do (by Carmisse). I was to /blm, sleep I/II, sleepga, silence anything that casts magic (excluding statues), refresh, and cure if your whm is low on mp. Oh, and expect to die a lot (died 5 times that run). For a career RDM, this SHOULD be a walk in the park.
On the last Bastok we did, I volunteered to be RDM since I only saw like 4 on. We were also low on WHMs it seemed because I was the main healer for the party. What I found disappointing in the beginning was finding scorpions running around awake. I did a sleepga, amazingly hitting all of them, and proceeded to silence them for the hell of it and to make sure (thinking it was already done). I was disappointed yet again that the 3 scorpions I targeted were silenced by me. Keep in mind that I was tailing the alliance (my fault) and was in the back. This SHOULDN'T be happening by the time I arrived to the mobs. They should have already been slept and silenced. Then I thought, OH, maybe the front line RDMs and BLMs were just petrified, so obviously they couldn't do anything. Then more to my disappointment, it happened again with the next pull of BSTs (and no one was petrified). I basically said to myself, hell with main healing, I'll let the brd (Chaela) hate me, and I mixed it up with the melees being front line. After, I stood back, helped nuke statues for fun, cure and sleepga Quads.
I wish I could say that this was just this run, but it's not the first. Many people would testify that it happens a lot where it seems like the RDMs, BLMs, WHMs, whoever aren't doing what they are "suppose" to be doing. What I said in the beginning is what people on those jobs should be doing! I don't know if BLMs are supposed to be sleepga IIing the mobs, but RDMs are definetely suppose to be doing it! Yes yes yes, I was midcast refresh, I got resisted, my timer wasn't up, I WAS RESTING!?!(WTF, my ears hurt when I hear this from a rdm), I was afk? (AGAIN WTF! suppose to tell people if you are afk), believe me, I've heard them all! I've even used some of them, but the probabilty of everyone being under one of those conditions is very low. Yes it does happen, but not all the time. Being stunned by a AoE, interrupted spells, main healer using all mp to cure everyone from an AoE, DEAD, that's understandable. But come on people, we need to work together and not have to carry to slack of other people.
Now for the other side, which seems to be more, but just needs more explaination.
There are many veterans and a few new people who do their job and is paying attention most of the run of what's going on, where we are suppose to be going, and what mobs are up, be it melees, mage, NM, and pets/avatars. And they do what they are suppose to do. I give a lot of leeway for new people, cause that is what they are, relatively. They don't know everything that is going to come and if they get lost, that's understandable too. Can even say this for many veterans. haha I'm going to mainly target the RDMs though since they are almost always to blame. They do sleep things, they do silence things, and do whatever else they are suppose to do. Not saying it every single time, but they do it. But not everything is cut and dry. I'm just gonna make a guess here of why this thread needed to be bumped, but I'm just gonna assume it's everything.
With sleeping mobs, with a group of melees I usually don't have to put all my enfeebling to sleep them (merits), but I do if I see a mage (a lot of times they have Shell #, and they DO cast them (even PLD mobs) on their fellow comrades) mixed in there, and especially a NM. I think it's more experience to identify these mobs quickly and ascertain what you need to wear. (I don't know about you, but changing gear in dynamis makes my computer want to blow up) I have noticed that there does seem to be partial resist on sleep where it doesn't last the full duration. But I've only noticed it in Xarcabard when holding a NIN demon. I can understand that even if RDMs sleepga something, unless it is there own, it is really difficult to time when that sleep is going to wear off. Not everyone can keep track or have tools to time them. This is especially true if some other RDM targets yours and overwrites with a Sleep II, or a blm firing off a Sleepga II and hitting your target. However, sometimes this is ok. This at least makes it so the hate is distributed. So if you are the initial person who slept something unclaimed, it'll hit you and then most of the time move off to the next person with the next lvl of hate, giving you the chance to sleep it again (unless its a freakin MNK with 2-hr active! happened to me twice in the last Bastok run).
Now, for those BLM pulls, particularly in Xarc (you know who you are), I hear a lot about people not sleeping things after they are pulled. Here's my observation and something that should be clarified, because I don't know the answer. When you pull a statue, the mobs pop around them and don't seem to move initially (at least on my screen). When I'm rdm, I can gladly sleepga them when they pop, but they will just stay where they popped, which are near the other statues that weren't pulled. And with the zealous group that we have, more likely than not, they will rush in to start killing them. OR, I can wait until they reach camp, from which they will kill the aggroing BLM, and sleep them. Don't know about others, but in those pulls, my screen shows them jumping from where they popped and then in the middle of our camp. Which is it? I know with the last set of statues that's what I've done, but it didn't matter cause there was nothing else to aggro. And about that kind of pulling, it would REALLY help that you DON'T run away (or even horizontal) to the camp where everyone is. It sucks to get a "too far away" message because the mobs were being pulled away from us.
For the silencing of mobs issue, this can be a major pain, not only for the people getting paralyzed, or silenced, or petrified, or whatever, but for the person/people trying to silence the mob/mobs. Many times others and myself do silence mobs, most of the time during the initial pull. But since pets are low in the kill order, a lot of times the silence wears off, either before it's targeted or during. Again, many times I have seen my mob's silence wear off right when it wakes up, either from sleep wearing off or someone hitting. THAT is where the problem arises. I typically wear all my fast cast gear (loq earring, af hat, af2 body) when it comes to silencing since I'm not too worried about resists. Even with this and I start casting silence when I see it wear off, the mobs status -gas are STILL FASTER! Very few times have I actually interrupted their casting of a status -ga by silencing them, and that was purely by chance. And don't say the duration of silence. There have been times where I silence something and it immediately wears off, kinda like with stun where you see the "no longer stunned" message in log before seeing "you stunned whatever mob". If a status -ga does go off, I do apologize for everyone who is "supposed" to be silencing them, but it does happen and most of the time we can't do anything about it. However, there is NO EXCUSE of why a mob was never silenced by anyone. I'm kinda curious if it's the assumption "I'm sure someone else already did it, so why should I do it." NO NO NO!! Even if you saw someone do it, you were right next to them, you saw the silence animation, DON'T ASSUME that the silence stuck! It may have resisted, it may have had a crap duration, and may have worn off. Silence is 16 mp! For a RDM, that is nothing!
My point of all this, it's not all cut and dry. But there are things we need to be aware of. Not only what you are suppose to do for the job you are going as, and also the limitations. RDMs need to refresh, if not only themselves, but others as well. That take 2-3 seconds to cast refresh, another second for the animation, 2-4 seconds for silence, sleep, sleepga, sleep II, whatever, giving plenty of time for anything to happen. Those experienced know a lot of things could happen within that time frame in the midst of battle in this game. I do know at times, people joke about it and it's ok, we want to play this game to have fun. But, some people may actually take it seriously and tensions can arise from it.
My advice is to just use some tact, have fun, and instead of putting blame, just work with what you got, and to PAY ATTENTION TO WHA. People can get overwhelmed in dynamis and just need to work at it to improve. We have new people in our shell, whether they are truely new to dynamis or came from another dynamis shell, they have to adjust to our tactics and learn to work with us.
Thanks
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