Civil discussion regarding multiple dynamis LS

[Zymurgy]

Please note the *CIVIL* in the topic.

I am creating this thread to get people's opinoins (not flames, not insults, not random stupid comments that do not pertain to the subject), just simple opinions on how to deal with the new up and coming LSes and the obvious problem with people attending multiple LS events. Keep flaming to a minimum if possible please, this doesn't need to be a topic that causes drama, it's just something that needs to, at some point, be addressed and dealt with.

So I'll start with my opinions. Up until now, we have basically been the only dynamis ls, and for that reason, people who do not like our lotting system had only two choices. Not go to dynamis at all, or deal with our rules. Now that there are more, it opens up more possibilities. For the most part this wouldn't be much of a problem, EXCEPT for one big factor that I see can cause many problems for...for lack of a better phrase, "loyal DB members".

Here is the scenerio:

Hypothetical person A does not like our rules, but sees that we are the only ls up until now that even has access, let alone the ability to win/farm northlands. They choose to attend another LS' runs as long as DB is not doing a northland run they don't have AF from in the next 72 hours. This way they can go to the other LSes with more lax rules and lot whatever AF they want, then come to our runs to get their northland AFs.

Hypothetical person B has been with DB 0-whatever days/months/years, but is a loyal member. They will come to city runs that they already have AF from either to help others who helped them get their AF, or just for the run credit so they can be considered for the oh so hated *priority*. They also attend the same northland runs that person A attends.

Obviously 99% of the readers can already see where I am going with this, but I will continue. Lets say person A goes to city runs with another LS and gets all the AF their heart desires for their 8 jobs above 65 that they can't equip yet, but are allowed to lot because of whatever rules the other LSes have (this isn't meant to bash any other lses, this is just a hypothetical example that needs not be criticized, whether there actually are LSes with these rules or not *COUGH*WRISH*COUGH* hmm...seems like the allergies are flaring again). Person B goes to DB runs and doesn't get to lot AF at all. Both of these people then go to a northland run with DB (again, since no other LSes at this time are doing northlands). Would it be fair to person B, going to a DB run, a loyal DB member, to lose lots to person A, who is not contributing anything to the ls?


Oh, and on a side note, I KNOW people can not attend other LSes events at all and still come to northland runs that they need AF from and this won't be any different, but honestly there is no way to make it fair. The priority system was put into effect to counter this but there are still obvious loopholes because there is no way to make it fair for everyone. The point of this thread is NOT to point this out. It is ONLY to address the multiple Dynamis LS issue.

Thank you for your time, and I hope to hear many positive (and no negative) responses from those who care.

[Radav]

We have the priority system in place to try and foster loyalty. Unfortunately something like this will never keep everyone happy. Our culture is to get everything now, now, now, there's no patience for most people. So your gonna see many people try to play both sides just like you have people who have tried to work in various HNM LSs. All we can do is keep our rules try and listen to the loyal members of the LS the best we can and hope they stay with us.

If we get into the situation of trying to police who goes where I think it's just gonna be a big mess. I'll just say that the people who come and help us are gonna be the people who get the majority of the items that drop through our priority system. Fatman and myself have agreed that greed is not something either of us can stand for and we are trying our best to weed the greedy people out.

I really like the group we have going to runs now. We work well together and have been mowing down zones like they're nothing. I just hope to see you all stay with us.

Well I don't wanna put down any other LS but our LS is like the BMW of Dynamis LSs. We've been around since forever, we put out a strong product that people trust, and we only get better as time goes on. If you want that you'll stay with us if your cheap and wanna buy a Ford mustang then go ahead. It may look cool at first, might be fun to drive for a while, but after 50,000 miles the BMW will still be going strong while the Ford will start breaking down and you'll be wondering why didn't I go with the tried and true performer.

[Ricardon]

I'm still fairly new to DynamisBums, and I don't know any of the "veterans" that well save for a few. I've only been to 14 runs, and although I haven't missed a single run since I started, my opinion will probably carry a lot less weight. I can see how this would be an issue, especially given the rarity of ANY AF drop in the northlands. I think it's a little more broad than just the northlands though. I personally was a little disappointed that I was the only THF that showed up for the last Sandoria run. Granted, we had a couple of people show up as different jobs but these were people who come to EVERY run. I show up every run because I'm addicted to Dynamis, and I'm addicted to DB. I curse the gods when I don't win a lot on THF AF, but I curse the gods when AF doesn't drop for friends I have in LS as well (most of the time it's them cursing me and my broken TH ;)). I'm here for the experience, and I'm here to be a part of the group when we finally open up a can on the DL and his 2 punk doggies. I'd also REALLY like the opportunity to get charmed and kill Liche or Kayoto, but I'll settle for one of the tarus as well. All joking aside though, AF is awesome, and if it drops you can bet your @$$ that I'll lot on it in hopes of winning it, but it's not by any stretch of the imagination my main motivation. But I understand that this simply isn't the case for many people that come to dynamis. To be honest, I'm fine with that as I understand that different people have different goals and motivations. Unfortunately, I don't see any way that this "problem" can be "fixed". People have RL issues they need to deal with, sometimes other in-game responsibilities to take care of that may force them to miss a particular run. If the runs they miss happen to be zones that they already have AF from/don't have AF that drops there, while it may seem obvious that they are just being sellfish, it's really very difficult to prove and be able to point a finger. In a perfect world every member who has been to 50+ runs or so would have full AF by now, and all of the newer players would be happy to pass those armors simply as a sign of respect for the veterans. This world isn't perfect and that would never happen because people need to have the carrot at the end of the stick. I also think it's a bit sellfish of the veterans to make this a /CONSTANT/ topic of discussion. Now, I mean absolutely no disrespect to any of you, so please before you flame try to see it from my perspective. We all spill the same blood in the same mud folks. A person who has completed 5 runs is every single bit as instrumental in defeating the DL as someone who has completed 50+. Last I checked, he still kicks our @$$es and we are deserving of his taunts (although it looks as if he will go down soon!!!). We all risk the same by even showing up. We all pay to get in, we all lose xp when we die, we all toss up the amazing 34 when our AF drops and toss up 900+ when a piece goes to free lot that we may never even use. Hell, if you're a mage or a PLD your'e just boned...expect to die 3875683657653 times each run in addition to the goodies from the previous sentence (I still wanna' kill Liche). I like the 4 run system. It allows people the opportunity to experience dynamis and DB (good and/or bad), decide whether or not they want to stay, and helps build as much "loyalty" to the LS as is possible in those few runs. But, we would be kidding ourselves if we expect many people to stay if we put any further restrictions on AF. As I said, AF is a big motivation for some people. A few days before I joined DB I had a short conversation with Fatman, and an even shorter one with Radav, and both told me that the LS is geared towards beating the DL. A lot of what I heard from them and many others was rah rah g0g0g0g0 kill the DL. From what I've seen, at least with them and some of the other veterans, if this LS were run like 90% of the HNMLS on the server, Radav and Fatman would already be strutting around Jeuno in full AF. Do they deserve full AF? Of course. Do they deserve it more than other members? I would say yeah, for setting these up and having to deal with all the madness and such, hell yes! Do they complain about it when they lot 2 on their most wanted piece? Aside from the ocassional "orz", unless I'm missing something, I don't see them ; ; about it in public. For an LS who's main concern/motivation is killing the DL, getting the title, and becoming the first NA LS on the server to notch the bedpost we do a literal boat load of bitching about AF and lotting rules. AF is the main topic of discussion 99/100 times, yet we still get owned by Oblivion Smash. I propose we go kick the crap out of that bastard and his two lizards, finally SHUT HIM UP (I'm sick of listening to that guy taunt us), and then we can go back to arguing over who gets the next set of BST AF (you suck Brisko, rate down o_o-p). That's just my opinion, but I'm a n00b, I could be wrong.

P.S. I don't think Brisko sucks (it was a joke), and I still want to kill Liche (can we do a Sandoria run where we all just get charmed on purpose and see who the last one standing is? Might be fun, and the reward could be permanent priority in ALL zones for ALL jobs o_o-b).

[Halon50]

I'd like to think that people go to Dynamis because they want to kill DL, or want to upgrade relic weapons, or want to have fun. Whatever; most people go to Dynamis for the AF. There really isn't any way around it. The priority system is already a crapton of work for the people keeping track of and running it -- making it any more complex will only exponentially increase the workload.

On the other hand, most of the people going to Xarcabard (note I'm not saying "Northlands", as obviously many people go to Beau for the AF) are there to kill DL, and DL only. We have a solid core crew at Xar again, and until we kill DL once or twice in a row, I do agree with setting Xar as Sunday permanent runs.

I have to admit, I am one of those who will probably go to another LS run -- but not because of different AF lotting; I'll leave it up to you to believe me. If my HNM LS starts doing runs, then that will finally take over as #1 Dynamis priority instead of Bums. I can't see any way around people going to runs for AF with other LS, but then again it won't matter much as long as Bums continues to farm new members from regular city runs.

[Eltia]

Would it be possible to help setting up another Dynamis LS that can go to Northern lands? (Actually, I heard such LS already exists and it is not only DB.)

I think the bottom of the issue is that Northern lands items are just too rare but too tempting. The bottleneck is introduced by the server setting and there is nothing you can do about it to improve this contention. So isn't the logical solution will be to get around the bottleneck by increasing production?

Consequentially, the issues arise from multiple Dynamis LS do not seem to be going away. Why not the high command of DB tries to reach some sort of agreement with other Dynamis LS's to extend/exchange their member's benefits?

e.g. LS-A needs more people to have northern land access and DB can use their expertise to get more people access to Northern lands. At the same time, LS-A will extend the benefits of DB's loyalists priority to certain items if these loyalists plan to join them. In the end we have more people who can go to Northern lands and get what they want, and Radav can accomplish his dream of defeating Dynamis Lord in a more timely manner by reducing conflicts among members.

We need someone who is diplomatic for this plan to work. I am not sure who in DB now would be best for this task though.

[Radav]

Lol... I think we're taking this stuff all too seriously. I don't see this being an issue.

Here's why. If there are people who are gonna go to other Dynamis LSs then they're gonna go for whatever reason. They don't like me, they don't like our rules, etc. Whatever its gonna happen. That's fine we have plenty of good players. I'll be sad if someone good leaves like, Halon for instance. But I'll bid him well and hope his success. If there are people who try to play both sides then we'll find them and speak to them about it. I don't think either LS just like an HNM situation will like it very much if someone is going to do that. So either they choose one or they'll get booted from both right? A successful LS especially a dynamis LS I think takes a set # of dedicated members to be successful... So for w/e other LS on this server to be successful they're gonna need people to be dedicated just like an HNM LS.

I don't play the game enough to even know anyone outside of the Dynamis LS I'm a part of and the WoA linkshell I've been a member of. So to undertake some sort of join effort between this LS and other dynamis LSs would be quite a massive job and would need someone with much more time then I have. I know there are other dynamis LSs out there but really have no clue when they play who are their members etc. If anyone thinks that's an idea worth looking into I'm not one to stop them. Go ahead and talk to me in game about and we'll see what we can do.

[Eltia]

Well, I heard one of the DB high commands has been keeping things in check to avoid Dynamis schedule conflicts. So I think it is likely someone in DB already has knowledge about other Dynamis LS and it is a matter of Radav goes finding it out. :)

[Radav]

I'd also like to back up what Ricardon said about spending to much time arguing/chatting/posting about AF2. There's just too much time spent going over and over on this stuff. I know everyone has their own philosophy or goals about what they do in FFXI. I think though if you have the mindset that your gonna need patience, luck and if your a Bard or Ninja an act of god to get Af2 then I think we'll all be alot better off. Whether we have priority or not that still does not guarentee that you will even see that one sought after piece of AF2 appear. Some of us have been to upwards of 50+ runs and we have seen BRD and NIN AF2 drop less then 20 times total. If you look at the member list you will notice that there are a ton of people who have gotten something. The more you attend the higher your chance to succeed increases. So if you really want that AF2 then you need to participate and pray that luck is on your side that day. It certainly hasn't happened for the Ninja or Bard group in our LS.

On a related topic. The amount of /tells I'm getting leading up to and during the runs has gotten beyond my ability to handle. I'm prolly going to start setting myself to /away the 30 min. before the run and possibly even during the whole run itself. With all the /tells I got during the run I could barely do anything but type and I'm not gonna have people think their dynamis leader is leeching. If I'm gonna have to field tells from people all day I might as well just sit outside and direct the link from there. Cause I would say during the last Xarc run I spent 50% of the time dealing with arguments, AF2 discussions, new people wanting to join, and random complaints about member performance. I really never wanted to do this and will resist but if things don't get any better this is what I'll have to do. I imagine Fatman experiences this just as much as me so please do your best not to bother us during the run so we can enjoy ourselves just like you hopefully are.

[Eltia]

So Radav, aside from the cultural issues that some NAs exhibit (the "me want it now now now" mentality you mentioned in a previous post), do you feel people will get into less argument if the contention in materialistic side lighten a bit?

Would it be better to lead with less iron fists and more of welcoming hands?

This is not to say there should not be rules; but perhaps to position the rules to target for people who understand what the constraints of Dynamis are. And let these understanding people to do the micro-management.

[Radav]

-_-...

Iron fists... maybe it would be better to lead with Iron Fists. Maybe things are too lax the way they are.

The arguments will occur no matter what happens. Utopia would be nice but I don't expect it to be forged by a group of players in a video game. Just look around the various HNM LS setups on our server. No matter what is done on the NA side I've never ever heard of harmony between everyone involved. No rules or tons of rules either way it always seems to brake down into arguments.

[Eltia]

Of course, extreme is not good. And as in real life, there will be rules/laws and people who choose to obey or defy them.

Perhaps you feel weird when the term "iron fist" is being brought up. But to some people I know, they do feel DB's rules (or the execution of) are a little of an iron fist occasionally.

Having an argument is not a problem and is likely to happen; it is when and how it is being brought up that is the issue, right?

Harmony among everyone is not even something attainable among the JPs (who are well known for their emphasis on forms in society). I would not suggest this ideal is something worth pursuing. But this does not mean we should not do what is good enough.

[Ricardon]

Oh cool!! An already frustrating topic, made even more frustrating by the introduction of NA/JP cultural comparisons! W00t!!






/vomit

[Fatman]

I think DynamisBums offers something that no other dynamis ls can offer except maybe GrandSaga...

What is that you say?!?

Simple. It has no involvement with hnmls stuff.

I really think the ffxi hnm community owes it to some of us to not drag the hnm scene into dynamis.

We have many attending members from:
Assassins
Burntcosmoss
Dawn
Fury
Genesis
Wildseven
and probably more but I have been out of hnm scene for a while

You guys get along magnificantly in Bums and I might be a little out of line in saying it but I really think it has helped bring some of those above mentioned hnmls's closer together.

Sure we have the occasional arguments over AF but you have to admit that for having members from so many competing hnm linkshells, we conduct ourselves pretty damn well.

[Scytale]

I will say that I have not yet bothered to read any of these posts, they are all far to long and I bore easy. There-fore I have nothing important or relevant to provide to the discussion. Thank you and have a nice day.

Carry On!

[tangia]

I have always simply been amased bye the fact that we all get along so well in dynamis , and then go hunt KB and start calling each other names. Personally im glad we can all get along , and i dont think a few up start DYn LSs will do anything to ruin our good times. Members come and go. Our records stand for them selfs , who would you rather go with a group that will get you xarc acces in 5 runs or probably not at all. the answer is clear ....
BUMS RULE

[Saeki]

I really like the group we have going to runs now. We work well together and have been mowing down zones like they're nothing. I just hope to see you all stay with us.

Well I don't wanna put down any other LS but our LS is like the BMW of Dynamis LSs. We've been around since forever, we put out a strong product that people trust, and we only get better as time goes on. If you want that you'll stay with us if your cheap and wanna buy a Ford mustang then go ahead. It may look cool at first, might be fun to drive for a while, but after 50,000 miles the BMW will still be going strong while the Ford will start breaking down and you'll be wondering why didn't I go with the tried and true performer.
lol.. nicely said.

[Shizune]

zomg you spelled one of htem wrong fatman Q_Q
/suicide

[Cybaster]

he spelled 3 of them wrong, including his own ls he opened himself, total rate down o_o-p

[Fatman]

Ok sorry I'll correct my typos:

TheWildseven or Wildsevens*
(Originally TheWildseven then Wildseven then Wildsevens orz)

Burntcosmossssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssss*
(hard to keep track of since shell holder keeps accidently tossing pearl and having to rename >_>)

Not sure what other one I misspelled... (Did Cybaster rename Dawn to Habetrot?)

[Shizune]

actually, it was WildSeven, and then TheWildSeven O_O
fail!

[Fatman]

Was that before or after Cravy kicked you out Shiz?

[Zymurgy]

i <3 fatman

[Shizune]

>_>
we left Q_Q-b

[Fatman]

Shizune...

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt >_>

[Wrish]

The thread seems to be degenerating into very casual remarks leading me to conclude Zymurgy has about trashed the idea by now. I had some serious thoughts I wanted to get across though:

Why worry about loyalty just now? DB has long had a problem with loyalty, when members would hunt pop items or even camp Simurgh during a scheduled run. That's because the bulk of the LS doesn't just play the game for Dynamis - we do HNMs, group quests, and plain XP parties that sometimes go on a fixed and conflicting schedule. Why should DB artifically restrict its members from only those activities that most directly compete with it?

It is not productive in the long run anyway to foster loyalty by restricting people from alternatives because monopolies tend not to last. You're right that, until fairly recently, there had been only one NA Dynamis group. With the exception of a handful of NA players in JP shells, Bums had great leverage to set its rules as it was effectively the only way to succeed in Dynamis. But now that's not quite the case.
If DynamisBums has been doing well, these new groups should be no reason to bring up loyalty. The high-level NA population grows daily (thanks to merit points and upcoming adjustments, alarmingly fast too), so naturally more people are going to attempt Dynamis, and some veteran members will join them because of previous connections. On the other hand, not every HNMLS is going to host its own runs because HNM work and Dynamis work are different challenges on different scales. There will always be people around for an LS like Bums, if not more.

Fatman isn't far off calling Bums the BMW of (NA) Dynamis groups, but I'd like to point out several alarming realizations. The first thing is that a BMW has no meaning without competition, because then you couldn't make worthwhile comparisons to be awed. What so far have we compared DynamisBums to? Very new Dynamis LS's. Secondly, a Dynamis group is successful primarily because of its command. That's because good command naturally draws good players. (It's also because players move in and out all the time whereas leaders don't change that fast.)

Inducing from the above, if DynamisBums doesn't want to lose many long-term members to other LS's, I think it follows from the above that it should look first to its leadership, and the leadership must be very focused on doing a good job. The focus should not be diverted to matters as multiple-LS membership, special lotting privileges, or even currency distribution -- matters tangential to the current objective(s).

[Fatman]

Ok, time for Fatman to get serious...

Sort of...

The reason I haven't made a big long drawn out post about people using multiple linkshells to get AF is because I really don't want people getting the impression that Radav or myself feel that its a big issue at this point. Yes if someone is abusing two linkshells I think Radav is correct that they will probably end up on the bad side of both. We don't look at other dynamis linkshells as competition but rather fellow dynamis adventurers and in light of that you can be sure that the leaders of this dynamis linkshell will not be hasty in judging someones motives for swapping linkshells.

Do I think bums is perfect... No, I certainly have a lot of improving to do as far as being a leader but I do feel that with each passing week bums becomes a funner and stronger linkshell. We will beat DL and all the people that stick with us will get AF... it just requires patience... 12 af in 2 zones a week isnt a lot but it is what SE has given us so lets try and be happy with what we can get and focus on making dynamis exciting instead fo worrying about AF drops we cant really control.

[Brightblade]

This seems a sort of bung-in-a-dam approach to what is really an inevitable situation. Given the next patch, we're going to see an explosion of new 75s (many of whom will likely be underskilled, due to the lessened amount of time spent per level). They'll hit the same brick wall a lot of us have experienced: " LS full [Good bye.]" They'll make their own new HNMLS', and they may even make a second dedicated Dynamis LS. And so what if they do?

Unlike the demi-farcical, cutthroat competition for HNMs, Dynamis is a splinter system: there's enough here for everyone. Far better to focus on the trait absolutely unique to DB--we have a leadership worthy of trust, allowing us to sit back and focus on being competent, rather than pitching a fit about who gets the shinies. Most HNMLS', on the other hand, have to resort to sleight of hand and silly points systems, which encourage accountantism and leave everyone vaguely dissatisfied.

It's also been said often that there's too much bitching and moaning about AF. On the contrary, we have barely any. Look at any [i]other LS sporting ~109 active members: you'd barely be able to wade through the mires of complaining. Rather, we have barely any straight-out bitching, and a sizable amount of intelligent discussion of the subject. This shows that our members are not just along for the ride, but are also active participants who are taking an interest in the operation of the LS (and consequently, are less likely to wander off). This is what we want, no?

We've got many of the best players in the game, and it's not because there's no alternative--it's because we're the best. So bring on the new Dynamis LS'. Our best, most dedicated people will remain that.

[Brisko]

So, when's the next Dynamis-Windurst run? >_>


I want shinies.

[Zymurgy]

My point wasn't to condone other dynamis LSes. Quite the contrary, I think it's great that people are finally taking initiative and opening up new linkshells for all the up and coming end game players.

My point was what do you think about what to do about people who will go to multiple dynamis ls runs in to lot whatever AF they can. I'm not sure if it matters to others, but I personally don't see it as fair the more dedicated members to lose lots to people who will just go to whatever ls they can go with.

[Brightblade]

Well, what can you do about it? For sure, it tells you some things about the priorities of the people in question, which really is worth knowing. Not everyone is loyal, but even mercenaries have their place.

Besides, it's entirely possible that some people are leaving because they want to get in on the ground floor and try to help make a Dynamis LS. As the indisputable hegemon of NADLS', perhaps it is even our responsibility to help new ones get off the ground? There's certainly enough Dynamis for everyone. The day we start trying to sabotage our competition (inadvertently or not) is the day we admit that we feel threatened by them.

As for fairness, though, a lot is a lot. Priority runs excluded, who are you to say whether it's "fair" that X person got A piece before Y person, or before you, for that matter? X person is participating in that run just as much as you are, and the fact that you've been on 40 more runs than they have doesn't necessarily make you any more integral to the run's success. You're more than welcome to be annoyed about it, but any sort of rules change regarding this had best be well-argued.

If you're still worried about mercenaries as some sort of global problem, then there are exactly three responses that can be enacted: (1) do nothing--let people hop and jump, and let them implicitly understand that a lack of loyalty to the LS also relieves the LS of any reponsibility to be loyal to them; (2) run more city runs. If people are leaving because they don't feel that they aren't getting a chance to get "shinies," then satiating them is another option; or (3) throw a lid on the budding problem (a gamble)--restrictions on LS hopping might raise the spectre of permanent departure, as well as garner the LS an unwanted reputation for draconian measures. However, it also might just keep the problem from truly manifesting at all. Who knows?

I'm not advocating any of these options over the other, merely laying them out. You asked. ^^

[Izzy]

or just use the priority system. If you consistantley go to runs, give that person priority. If you notice someone only coming to runs to lot af when other people are lotting the same AF and being loyal, give the loyal ones priority and make the LS hopper wait for his.

[Irinicus]

WHat SE should have done was to make Special Pearls for Dynamis shells only and made it where you can only have one at a time. That would prevent the ever popular shell hopping. I used to belong to a new Dynamis shell called Anxiety, I dropped it because of what happened in our 2nd run, if you want to know just ask. It is lead by Moosey, cool guy and be good leader, but too into the whole time thing, meaning it has to be done quickly. This is what lead to a disastrous Sandy run. Total wipeage not once but 2 times and almost a 3rd time(90% deaths). He scheduled the run with only 4 blms, imo bad idea, but what got several members was the fact that he pratically demanded, no wait, he did demand everyone to take R1's. Keep in mind all the BLM's with the exception of 1 was a 75'er. Also his setup put the BLM party in extreme danger which lead to all of us dieing at least 5 times between both runs. Personally I died 6 times. Dieing I dont mind, getting a Raise1 or 2 when others are getting R3's and I asked to get R3, then being told to take R1 for time sake, that I have a problem with. HEHE I just realized something, I got totally off track on this topic and apologize for it. I shut up now. :eek:

[Spunkymage]

I'm going to share my situation, and opinions regarding priority, multiple shells, etc...

I can attest to Irinicus' post regarding Anxiety. I wasn't going to mention their name in this post, but since Irinicus already did... I'm not going to beat around the bush. I was there and bore witness to it all, including personally dying 4x during the run. Moosey's demanding people take R1's, etc... It was the most horrible experience I've had in game to date. Now, I'm not trying to bash Anxiety, I wish them well. But, I promptly broke my pearl after last night's fiasco. It was disorganization at it's worst. I even tossed my hourglass towards the end to prevent a 5th death. I was even having to do assist on like 4 or 5 different people just to figure out which mob we were attacking because the assigned 1 person in the entire zone we were told to assist, wasn't engaging fast enough or kept dying.

Now, it's like I explained to Fatman and Zym last night. I was presented with a unique opportunity to get the Sandy Key Item (it was failga) and I jumped on it so that I could hopefully unlock Beacedine this Sunday after Windurst. The AF is irrelevant to me at this point, as I know there is priority in Bums and it would just be unethical for me to lot AF in Anxiety knowing I wasn't going to remain loyal. I just wanted to be able to get in with Bums each week and play with my friends, vs sitting out... or worse, doing Dynamis with complete strangers. With that being said, I decided to just wait for my Sandy key item and remain exclusive to Bums.

I have to fully agree with Radav's comment... DynamisBums is like the BMW of NA Dynamis LS's. The shell is the product of conditioned engineering, and they put their standards above the rest. BMW has an earned reputation, and so has Bums. That's all I could think about last night. I'd rather work for my af given every opportunity I could go, and comply with priority than risk failure and for 1 armor drop during the whole time I was in Dynamis.

Last night, there were some people on the run who pretty well eluded heavily to the fact that they were there only for the AF. And I thought it was ridiculous that people were actually fighting over relic weapon drops.

In short, as a result of last night, I'm officially exclusive to Bums now.

---

Regarding priority in Bums. My suggestion, (take it for what it's worth) is establishing priority tiers for each job. Since people are going to constantly be faced with schedule conflicts as time goes on, a tier system could provide some flexibility to those who really need it.

For example 1 being low priority, 5 being highest priority. Factoring in total runs with LS and recent consecutive runs.
Player X has 64 runs under his belt, but has missed the last 6 runs to attend other ls events.
Player Y has only 30 runs under his belt, but has participated in last 8 runs.
Player Z has only 10 runs under his belt, and has participated in last 6 out of 7 runs.

Player Y is in level 3 tier, Players X and Z are in level 2 tier. Let's say all 3 go to a zone they need AF and two pieces of AF drop in zone. Player Y gets first lots against others in his tier if no permanent priorities exist, players X and Z have to lot against each other for second drop once level 3 tier has gotten their af (in this case, assuming player Y was only one). That way, it doesn't present an unfair situation for Y, who worked hard for the last 8 runs, while X gets priority lotting for having more runs.

Just my thoughts. - spunk

[Radav]

First about the Raise 1 complaints... I'm sure that everyone who was with us at the beginning felt the same way as you did about me. I was pretty adamant about people taking whatever raise they could get in certain situations. Now raise 1s are used in only Xarcabard and in some cases windurst. I sort of feel Moosey's pain in this regard. Cause when starting out with people totally new to dynamis you really need every second you can get and if you sit around and wait 30 min. while everyone raise IIIs your really losing TONs of time. I'm not sure how things went down but it did not sound good from what I hear. You really do feel alot of pressure when your in that situation.

Taking 4 BLMs your first time is also probably not the best idea either. Anyway that being said I do hope we see another Dynamis LS or 2 pop up and succeed like we have done. If I have to I'll chat with the leaders of the other LSs to help them with regards to strategy and whatever other questions they might have. We can only take 64 people in a run and there is a HUGE demand for this sort of thing so to see some other LSs do well would be a good thing for all of us I think.

Anyway so don't be so harsh in thinking of what happened last night believe me we've had some pretty crazy nights in dynamis as well.

[Spunkymage]

Radav, just to follow up. I don't mind taking raise 1s, or getting wiped out numerous times... as long as I'm having fun. I have like 630 hp at level 74... so I'm used to taking 1 (or 5) for the team.

But things went from fun to miserable very quickly last night. Even still, I never complained about taking a R1. It was like an exp party gone bad. I actually contemplated a forced dc just so I could save myself from getting any more upset. A lot of the death was from senseless trains and shoddy pulls. People dragging like 20 mobs back to camp on the whole shell. The whole raise 1 situation came about because it was decided with like 25 minutes left we were going to win the zone. Of course at that point people were then fussing about farming vs key-item.

Before we even went in, they were trying to figure who's lotting AF and who's lotting items. And I suggested, "Why can't we do like Bums and put dots in our search comments citing what we are here for?" And the response to me was, "Because we're not Bums." I left it at that and didn't feel it worth arguing. At another point, I asked if there was someone else I could /assist because the 1 guy out of 64 they assigned was taking way too long to engage... and I was told to just shut up and assist him anyway. As a result, I was having a difficult time trying to control my avatars. Towards the end, I just cured.

There was a lot of people being arrogant last night, and I walked away from the whole experience bitter and resentful. I've never gotten that from Bums. I can't attest to how things were with Bums in the beginning. However, I can only attest to what I've seen with my own eyes and I know that when I leave Dynamis wearing a Bums pearl, I have a much greater sense of accomplishment and satisfaction that it was time well spent.

-spunk

[Izzy]

i took 7 raise 1's in xarcabard, my roomate took 5 raise 2's and 5 raise 1's. I can name countless other people that took 15 or more raise 1's to try to kill that bastard. Noone should really ever be bothered taking raise 1's. Otherwise you will never win runs. I gaurentee if you refuse to take a raise 1 in windurst or in xarcabard while fighting DL (which some people did and it disgusted me) it wont put you in very well with the rest of the group.

[kang]

i think we overall lost 250k xp that day?

(lets just skip dynamis and go garden of ru'met okok!)