Need Help With Xarcarbard DL fight [Archive]

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Seventhseeker

05-17-2007, 01:18 PM

Izzy

05-17-2007, 01:33 PM

Hi guys, I need some help with out Dynamis Lord fight. Our linkshell is rather small, so at the most we would have max around 32-35 people in a Dynamis zone. We have fought DL about 8 times, but have not been successful. In our best fight, we got him down to 5 % health. We have used your strategy for Xarcarbard and even though some people used to say that Dynamis Bums Strategy was for linkshells with 64 people, we have found that the same strategy works for smaller groups as well. The lastest discussion we have had on our forum concerning the DL fight is this link:

http://www.darkstaticls.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=397

1) I think our biggest problem at this point is that our rdm's cannot keep DL from spamming his AGA spells and Oblivion Smash. They start Chainspell-Stun and even overlap the spells, sometimes 2 people stunning at the same time, but the agas still get through. They say that it is server lag that is the problem. Our RDMs also say they have all effects and sound turned off and still have bad lag. Do you guys have this problem and if so how do you deal with it.

2) BLMs have a lot of Elemental Spell resists, even with full merits and Elemetal Magic Skill + Gear on. Some Spells land for 450-600. But a lot of spells land for around 150 . Is this normal also?

3) We have about 6 members who have 2nd jobs as RNG and are pimped out with full merits and gear. We are considering having them come RNG instead of their main job considering the information we have come cross in the following post:

http://www.darkstaticls.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=397

If you guys would look over our forum thread and make some suggestions that would help us it would be greatly appreciated.

We also would like to thanks you guys for all the hard work you guys have done to put together this website. It has been a great resource for us

Seventhseeker aka Scrappy
1. We've used the strategy with 35-40 before so it should work. The chainspelling issue was a problem for us in the past. I only let people who have seriously good computers chainspell stun now. There is no room for someone lagging ONCE cause that one little spike of lag will cause an oblivion smash to get through. Also, having 3 rdm/drk and having them chainspell in 15 second increments is a good idea if you can spare the extra damage for 3 rdm/drk (like having RDM1 chainspell, RDM2 chainspell 15 seconds later, having RDM3 chainspell 15 seconds later).

2 and 3. If they have the option to come RNG instead of BLM or any other meele job, do that. The only exception is kclubDRK or maybe MNK for 100 fists. BLM damage is too hard to gaurentee due to resists+elemental resist buildup. Have BLM's come meele if at all possible.

If you have any more questions feel free to post them here again!

Neosutra

05-17-2007, 05:25 PM

I seem to have read several accounts of double stunners being less effective then one dedicated stunner at a time due to cancelling out of effects. Having one dedicated stunner at a time (a person w/o bad connection or cpu) would probably serve you alot better. Just have the second person in the stun order start up 5-10 seconds before the first person is done.

Teorem

05-17-2007, 05:30 PM

Due to restrictions on your forum, it's not possible to view the contents of the thread you linked to:

http://www.darkstaticls.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=397

If you can copy over the relevant portions of your discussion, I'm sure people will be able to comment on them.

Seventhseeker

05-18-2007, 10:28 AM

Here are the highlights of our thread. Sorry about the links not working. I know it ir rather lengthy, but it contains the information we are trying to resolve. Any help you can give us will be greatly appreciated

Scrappy
1) It appeared that the Carby pull went well. DL was pulled to the proper spot where the tanks were and he didnt get off any damaging aga spells.
2) Tanks held hate well. Better than expected.
3) RDM Chainspell Stuns worked well, but agas still got through, eventually killing most of the Black Mage party. It was suggested that two RDM's Chainspell Stun at the same time to make sure no agas go off. Also I was wondering if the RDM's can turn off their effect animations from their menu to help with lag.
4) The Black Mage party started taking damage from aga spells from DL, which should have been cured by the BLM party themselves. We were so concerened with getting off those last few nukes, that we didn't take the time to cure ourselves. Divine Seal + Curaga II would have saved us long enough to Manafont and go another round of nukes. That I know of, none of the Black Mages were able to Manafont and Nuke again. Myself and Heavy got Manafont up, but immediately died. I am conviced that if we had taken the time to Divine Seal Curaga II and then Manafont Nuke, we would have won.

Melee
It was fun, though i got pissed when i 2hrd and got Knockback + bind. I only got off 4/5 Spirits Within and missed out on like 2800 Dmg, yea that sucked. Also if we have enough Rdms on at the time, maybe have 2 rdms chainspell stun at once to try and stop moves from breaking through, jus a suggestion. Anyway we`ll get it next time, we only needed that lil bit more dmg and we wudda had him. ><;

WHM
This fight had a bit of bad luck in it, all things considered we did extremely well. The chainspell aga3s were what killed us, there was nothing we really could do about that, thats the bitch of chainspell. 4 blizzaga3s, 2 thundaga 3s, 2 stonega3s and a firaga3 went off, that prettty much decimated all our blms and melee.
One problem as a whm that I noticed is, once that Violent Rupture move went off the first time, most of the melee I was supposed to be healing were out of range and bound. I believe that since we lost a lot of damage due to people being bound away from DL, that melee parties should have a whm in them, so in case that move goes off, they can quickly do a divine seal erase, and get the melees back on.
We really did do an excellent job, there were many many random factors that could have lead to us winning, and in my eyes, the fact that we got to 5% with odds stacked so hard against us with those chainspell agas was very impressive.

RDM
For the most part, there were 2 rdms stunning at a time. I started, had another RDM go 15 seconds after me, then another RDM went when mine was done and another and then another. The problem is even with 2 at a time, you'll never completely stun-lock him due to overlapping stuns and the random rate that the stun lasts. Lag was a problem. I had to turn my camera away from the fight because I was so lagged that my menu wasn't responding and I turn down all setting and most effects when in dynamis

Scrappy
I'm thinking that what has been referred to as bad luck may just be a normal part of the fight that we will need to deal with.
Anacrusis recommending that there be a White mage in the Melee party that can Diving Seal + Erase sounds like a very good solution to the Knock Back - AOE Bind move. In the map provided by Dynamis Bums there is a place that is recommended for the White Mages to stand. If the melee when going in to do their Weapon Skills can position themselves so when the AOE - Knock Back move occurs they will all be thrown in relatively the same area for the WHM to run in and DS Erase them. Also maybe a SMN to cast Stoneskin on them may after the AOE Knock Back move occurs amy help keep them alive a little longer.

RDM
I also think we need to not postition the rdms with the rest of the mages due to our high chance of pulling hate at the start of the fight. I think that's most likely why he moved up the ramp some at the start of the fight. One of the rdms pulled hate. Most likely me, since I was the first one to start stunning. Resist rates on the stuns don't seem to be much of an issue, I don't ever recall having one myself, so rdms should stack as much - enmity as possible.

BLM
I was near the end of the blm line, and most of the ga's missed me, I was able to dump all my mp then manafont and the timer ran out before i died. I was even able to reraise from where I was, but I had no MP left to do anything. A vile elixer + reraise for blms might help if we all die and it's at 5% again.
I reccommend not using AM 2 untill you manafont because it drains way too much mp. Next time, i'll wear full mp gear for first nuke, then rotate Blizzard IV, Thunder IV, Blizzard III, Thunder III till out of mp, then manafont + eseal AM 2, then start blizzard thunder rotation till manafont is over.
If DL's knockback is anything like puks or quadav nms, it'll knock you back in whatever direction your back is facing, if you don't need to be engaged have your back turned to a wall just incase.

Scrappy
Seems the run we did on Sunday, February 25, 2007 didn't go as well as the last. Please post if you have any information that was helpful.
Someone said, "The damage doesn't seem to be doing as much this time as last time". The last fight the Black Mages did not have many resists on their nukes. This time, however we had a lot of bad resists, ie Burst II for 170. The next time, i would suggest that all Black Mages wear their Elemental Magic Skill plus gear. It was Waters Day, if that meant anything. We died before getting to Manafont and continue nuking. Most BLMs got off 3-4 nukes max. Also when the tanks went down, DL warp up on top of the cliff where the mages were, did an Oblivion Smash, and wiped us out in one move. Not having Stoneskin up hurt us badly since we cancelled it before using a poison pot. To counter this, Black Mages can use a poison pot, cast Stoneskin and Blink, and fight. If they get slept, they can manually cancel their Stoneskin and the poison pot will kick in, waking them up.
It has been suggested that if we had two more RDM/DRK would have helped also. Raven believes when DL warped up to the top of the cliff, that he was going after the RDMs and not BLMs. Positioning RDMs apart from BLMs may be an option possibly saving the BLM party, but if you do that, BLMs may be out of range for nuking if DL goes after the RDMs.
Moves still went off during the Chainspell Stun order, so i'm not sure what would help that.
Tanks went down rather fast. Kahne said that the tanks took an Oblivion Smash rather early in the fight and then two or three more got them and killed them. Were WHMs able to Benediction? Suggestion on this also.

RDM
It wasn't the DL that owned us yesterday, it was lag. Even though we only had a few more people lag seemed 10x worse. All the extra damage and weither or not blms get resisted or not doesn't mean shit, if all the rdms are lagging out. We need at least 2 more rdm/drks for that, have 3 go at a time, and hope that through all the lag we can get enough stuns out.

Scrappy
I have been thinking about Dynamis Lord lately. We have been so close to killing him, that maybe a few changes could make the difference between a win or loss. I was trolling the RNG forums the other day and found this information. This discussion was about capping pDIF on Dynamis Lord by Rangers. It appears that using the right formula for gearing/food/buffs/etc, that a RNG can do great damage. Althoug BLMs do okay damage, there are a great many spells that are heavily resisted. Most Black Mage spells capped out around 550-600. I think most times we got off 2 Ancient Magic spells and a Thundaga 3 before we died. If all 3 spells were unresisted, which many were resisted, the damage would be around 1650 per blm, but more realistically it was around 1,200. The Rangers in this thread, however, were doing much more. The following are screen shots and exerpts from the thread:
_____________________________________________
Threx wrote:
For buffs, I had Berserk, Warcry, Red Curry, Flashy Shot (for first WS), Soul Voiced double Minuets from a Brd with max Minuet merits and Gjallahorn. The debuffs that I supposedly had were Dia 3, Angon, and Choke.
Damage went as follows:
1) Sidewinder 2385
2) Barrrage 2106
3) Eagle eye Shot 1755
4) Sidewinder 2355
Popped IC Wing
5) Sidewinder 2355
6) Another 600 + in single shots
11,612 Total Damage to Dynamis Lord by one Ranger

As a Hume Rng/war with 5 Str merits, my base Str is 69.
Vulcan Staff
Ebow
Kaburas and PPA (only for first WS)
Wyvern Helm
Hope Torque and Light Gorget (for WSs)
Triumph + Cassie earrings
Osode
Seiryu's Kote
Flame + Rajas rings
Amemet +1
Ocean Sash
Scout's Braccae
Hume RSE boots
Edit: My total damage was 11,612. From what I see in parses, DL has about 56k HP, so I took off 20% by myself. XD (Of course with the help of buffs and debuffs.)

_________________________________________________
Here is another screenshot of 3 RNGs using slug shot on Dynamis Lord

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/ballinsoldier/DLslugs.png

_________________________________________________
Here is the link to the thread:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=7;mid=1177479125269989233;num=28;pa ge=1

So, lets see.......
BLM damage 1,600
RNG damage 11,612
I'd say we try this !

BLM
Well, honestly. Theres is nothing new that about all melee outdmg BLMs on DL.
I saw a screenshot of a RNG pullin out almost 12k damage within 1min on DL, and no BLMs in hell could do that, not even 2 BLMs can do 12k damage on DL within 1min. However, reason why we use many BLMs is because they are out of AoE range and wont pull hate off any of the melees. And 10-12 BLMs can pull off at least 35-40k HP on DL. You sure its 56k HP tho Scrappy? I heard it was closer to 75-80K HP.

Scrappy
The information i posted was from the allakazham RNG forum. Their finest members went over the post. VZX, Redvenomweb, Threx, Deadonarrival, are all solid posters who hava a history of posting solid information. If someone posts information that is questionsable, they are quick to demand screenshots and sources for the information posted. I believe the information to be correct.
I have found that in this game, people in general want to show their best side and ignore their worst. It is very common for someone to say ( and this is only an example) " Yeah look mtfkr's, I just did a Tornado II on Kirin for almost 2k damage". What they didn't tell you was that the previous four nukes went off for 120, 350, 245, 500. This is also what happens on Dynamis Lord. If you read the prevoiuos posts above, you will see that i made a note of the Elemental resists that occurred on the last DL fight. The information on the RNG forum may leave out if someone missed on a Sidewinder, or had a low damage Barrage go off. However, even if the damage was 1/2 of what they say it was, we would still be ahead in damage.
Also
1) The BLMs were not out of AOE range, we took one aga spell after another. Ashur i think was the only one out of range.
2) BLMs will not pull hate off melee's. Yes we did. DL warped on top of the ledge and smashed us all when we drew hate.
3) I have no idea what DL's HP is.
4) I think in this next fight we as individual members need to be brutally honest about the the fight, the damage we do, and what went right and what went wrong.
5) The source we use for the strategy on this fight was from the dynamis bums website. Origionally we thought that the strategy worked only for groups of 64. We now know that the strategy works for smaller groups also.
6) If we can somehow get the chainspell stuns going off right, i think we can win.

WHM
If blms are able to stay above the ledge and do their damage from there, it would stand to reason that the rngs also could right? A little damage might be lost from not being at optimal distance for sidewinder, but those tp moves at the start would be avoided, which would make subbing war more workable

RDM
Cause spamming a spell from the menu is a difficult thing to do? Mashing the enter key is not rocket science. We loose due to lag, and most importantly, lack of damage. How many people are actually using ic wings, and sleeping TP before we start? Stop using rdms as the scapegoat for the reason we loose.

BLM
Well, even if its the lag that causes the lose and Chainspell stuns not going off properly, its still CS
fault that we lose it, blame the computer/Ps2 w/e, it doesn't really matter whos fault it is cuz we are doing something wrong and need to figure wtf we doing wrong after 4 wipes in a row.

RDM
We had THREE rdms stunning at a time last time. I don't think we can get any better than that. Stun durations are random. There is no way you will EVER be able to completely stun lock him. Not with the number of rdms we have.

Izzy

05-18-2007, 10:35 AM

Did not read all that, but the RNG to BLM damage ratio is the thing you should pay the most attention to. Maybe have 2 BLM's just to have a couple for DL, but have any extra BLM's that can switch to meele do that. You'll notice a great damage increase.

Carmisse

05-18-2007, 10:44 AM

I wouldn't say to completely disregard BLM dmg and only fitting in two would be a bad idea. Four well-equipped blms would probably be ok.

I'm not sure how you position it, but BLMs shouldn't even be taking damage (at least not immediately). At around 85% you can start going all out with ES nuke and stuff. On average, blms should get resisted about 30% speaking from experience. Some days you get boned and have 3 spells resisted and one full dmg. You can fit at LEAST four spells out. Full dmg spell do around 950+ dmg to over 1k. As you said, your blms are full merited and have ele skill+ gear, I'm not entire sure where those 100 dmgs come from if that output is seriously constant.

Also, I would ES nuke it as the first volley of nukes. At this point you are at the safest position, so your damage output should be the highest. If you save ANYTHING, your risk of dying and not using ES definitely increases a LOT due to the fact that the melees could have been all killed with an aga, and DL would be coming for your ass... he does an AoE and wipes all the blms from your area. Even if you get back up, the possibility of you dying again without reraise is also the highest. We cannot reiterate this point enough: do not save ANYTHING until the end. Blms should go all out when their BLM leader tells them to go nuts (this should be the point where the melees have all the hate)

Also, I find it more effective to have a macro for /ma Stun <t> for chainspell stunning ... and not use the magic window. That wastes too much time (every milisecond counts).

Unless you really have all the bad luck DLs... and we all know what that's like (back-to-back breakga anyone?)

Izzy

05-18-2007, 10:47 AM

I wouldn't say to completely disregard BLM dmg and only fitting in two would be a bad idea. Four well-equipped blms would probably be ok.

Exactly. Keep a few BLM's, that can't hurt at all. But if you have mediocre blms there getting resisted on 4 nukes for a total of 600 damage, they should be switching to a meele job that can do 600 damage with a single weaponskill...4 times lol.

Carmisse

05-18-2007, 11:03 AM

I noticed that you said you got a resisted ES nuke. I had that happen to me ONCE in all the times we fought DL, and I still did 600+ dmg Freeze II. It'd be best to encourage all blms to use it ASAP because resist is VERY unlikely, (although plausible).

:o Good luck!

Zymurgy

05-18-2007, 12:36 PM

Parses that I've done have shown that KClub DRK and RNG do about the same amount of damage (upwards of 7000). MNK comes in second at around 5500. BLMs are too inconsistant to rely on them over those melee jobs. The general strategy we use is as many rngs as possible followed by mnks. If there happens to be a person or two that have drk leveled with a kclub, then that works too. Of course you'll need enough bards to suppport the melee.

Seventhseeker

05-18-2007, 07:19 PM

Thanks for all of your input. It has been real helpful.

I have a few more questions.

1) The chainspell problem. According to Izzy, and if I am understanding his post correctly, there should not be a problem with DL,s TP moves and Aga's getting through. Several of our members made the following statements:

"The chainspell aga3s were what killed us, there was nothing we really could do about that, thats the bitch of chainspell. 4 blizzaga3s, 2 thundaga 3s, 2 stonega3s and a firaga3 went off, that prettty much decimated all our blms and melee".

"Tanks went down rather fast. The tanks took an Oblivion Smash rather early in the fight and then two or three more got them and killed them".

Am I correct to assume that we should not have had any of these spells get through. If so, we will need to have Chainspell Stunners who are not getting lagged out, cause this seems a bit extreme to me. If this is normal, then let me know so we can plan a way to deal with it.

2) Where do you guys have the RDM and RNG stand. Someone in our shell recommended that the RNG stand up on the ledge with the BLMs, out of Oblivion Smash AOE range. When Rng cast Sharpshot if will ignore the sweet spot, but sometimes terrain that is hiily can cause a problem with ranged accuracy.

3) I recommended that Rngs use a Stoneskin Torque and a Blink Band to lessen the damage. Someone in our shell said that they thought that it would not help, that DLs moves would shred right through them. Do you guys have any experience with these items on DL?

Jayiiq

05-18-2007, 07:37 PM

The RDM that is stunning should be standing rather close to DL. You don't want it to move much if the stunner pulls hate. Obviously, RDMs not yet stunning need to stay far away.

Halon50

05-19-2007, 12:59 AM

I don't remember DL using Chainspell before. I'd say you had VERY bad luck with the run. You could tweak a few things here and there, but in general DL won't Chainspell and instead goes down pretty meekly.

The only thing I'd add to all this is make sure your BLMs don't cast until after the chainspell+stun and invicible go off.

Some notes:
One chainspell+stun going off at a time is fine. If needed maybe overlap them by 5 or 6 seconds, but always have a backup RDM/DRK ready in case the current one dies or is petrified.

The current RDM/DRK should be directly next to DL but not next to the current tank. Once Chainspell ends, the RDM should stay next to DL for as long as possible.

RNGs also need to stand next to DL. No standing at range then running away after using Sidewinders Barrage and 2hrs - this will pull DL away from the BLMs and Tank - or worse, from melee's like DRK and MNK who are in the middle of their 2hrs.

It looks like you've already gone over the +Elemental Magic gear for BLMs, but you can swap in +Magic Attack gear for the opening Elemental Seal spellcast.

Carmisse

05-19-2007, 10:25 AM

Oh right, and another important point we learned from: If you're a melee and you pull hate, don't run away. If you're any job that has hate, don't run away. This will get DL out of range of BLMs or any melee about to WS, and cause you to lose DL @1%.

:(

sueno

05-20-2007, 12:44 AM

I can help with the blm resist.A nin can use elemental debuff tools.They give -30 to a element but it only last a fixed time(ichi=8 sec ni=10 san=12) and will only be limited to 1 element so all the blm would need to use the same element when nuking.I always make DL weak to thunder since thunder spells have the highest base dmg.I have tested this and found that a lvl 73 blm with no merits can land nukes unresisted when a nin uses the elemental debuff tool.Having 2 nin use the same tool will not increase the -30 element but a bard threnody will stack with the tools.If the blm need to switch elements a nin can easily do this since they can stand close to DL and the only thing that hurts them is -ga3 spells since DL's tp moves only take 1-2 shadows.